EP 103 - Dr. Amy Mariaskin & Judo Blue "Sweet Tea" (OCD/Anxiety)

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FORWARD ,  Episode 103"Sweet Tea"

Most people think OCD means being neat and particular. It doesn't.In this episode, host CJ Monaghan sits down with Kennedy ,  a singer-songwriter from Kansas City, now based in Nashville, performing under the name Judo Blue ,  and Dr. Amy Mariaskin, licensed clinical psychologist and founding director of the Nashville OCD and Anxiety Treatment Center.Kennedy performs two original songs live in the studio. The first, "Sweet Tea," opens with one of the most vulnerable moments the Forward room has seen so far ,  the story of a night where passive suicidal ideation became active, a breakdown behind the wheel, and the conversation with his wife that changed everything. The second, "Dr. Goose," is a co-written coming-of-age song about nostalgia, self-doubt, and the slow work of finding your footing.Between the songs, Amy dismantles the most common OCD misconception ,  that it's about being tidy or particular ,  and replaces it with something far more accurate: sticky, unwanted intrusive thoughts that loop and compound, and the exhausting mental rituals people use to manage them. Kennedy describes his own experience with Pure O OCD, the paralysing perfectionism it brings to his creative process, and the counterintuitive strategy that finally got him unstuck.This conversation covers the relationship between OCD and creativity, why waiting until you feel ready means you'll never act, what relationship OCD actually looks like, and why early diagnosis matters more than most people realise. Amy also shares her own story ,  symptoms starting at age six or seven, diagnosis at 24, mid-session with her first OCD client. It's honest, funny, and at times genuinely moving. Exactly what this room is for.

---RESOURCES MENTIONED

Nashville OCD & Anxiety Treatment Center: ocdnashville.com | @ocdnashville

International OCD Foundation: iocdf.org Relationship OCD resource: rocd.net

Book: Thriving in Relationships When You Have OCD by Dr. Amy Mariaskin

ABOUT THE SHOW

Forward is a Nashville-based podcast at the intersection of music and mental health. Each episode, a singer-songwriter performs an original song live in the studio, then sits alongside a mental health clinician or advocate for a conversation about what the song reveals. Forward is hosted by CJ Monaghan ,  songwriter, music industry insider, and someone navigating his own mental health journey.

GUESTS THIS EPISODE Kennedy (Judo Blue) ,  Singer-songwriter ,  @judo.blue on all platforms

Dr. Amy Mariaskin @ocdnashville ,  Founding Director, Nashville OCD & Anxiety Treatment Center ,  ocdnashville.com New episodes monthly. Follow Forward on Instagram @forward.show

TRANSCRIPT

00:00:00 - Chapter 1 - Cold Open Voiceover

CJ: Hello, I'm CJ Monaghan, host of the Forward Show.

Most people think OCD just means being neat and particular. It doesn't. Today we're setting the record straight, with someone who's lived it, and someone who's spent 20 years treating it. Here's Judo Blue and Dr. Amy Mariaskin.

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00:00:22 - Chapter 2 - Amy & Kennedy Introduce Themselves

CJ: Welcome back to another episode of the Forward Show podcast. Um, we have here next to me, uh, Amy Mariaskin, OCD and anxiety specialist. And Kennedy, you go by the artist name of Judo Blue, correct? Yeah. True. Yeah. Awesome. Perfect. Um, today's episode's really gonna be centered around OCD and around anxiety and things like that, that connect the two. Um, and we're gonna jump straight into some introductions. Amy, if you wanna introduce yourself, tell the lovely people at home who you are, where you came from and, uh, what brought you here today.

Amy: Yeah. Um, I'm Dr. Amy Mariaskin. I'm a licensed clinical psychologist and the owner and director of the Nashville OCD and Anxiety Treatment Center. We have, uh, two locations. It's a clinic here in Middle Tennessee. Um, we serve people ages five and up affected by OCD, anxiety, and related disorders, and I am... I would characterize myself as a reluctant business owner. I got into, uh, clinical psychology because I'm a, I'm a therapist. I'm curious about people. I'm curious about science. Um, I think there's an art to therapy, a real creativity that draws me to it, and the business world is, um, less stimulating.

CJ: Mm.

Amy: But I've kind of grown into this role, um, in part because there's just, like, a real need for it in the community. I was like, my, my... When I was in private practice, my wait list was full, and people would just be waiting an inordinate amount of time to get services that they really needed. So, um, yeah, I've expanded out. I have this, this clinic now. I'm also on faculty at, um, the Behavior Treatment Training Institute with the International OCD Foundation and, um, adjunct faculty at Vanderbilt.

CJ: Wow. So when do you find time to sleep?

Amy: That's a good question. I'm getting better. Yeah. Yeah, I'm getting better at it. You know, I think, like, um, yeah, work was, like, work was my everything for a long time, and that kinda caught up to me a few years ago. Mm. And now work is, like, still a significant part of things 'cause it's still, like, very in line with my values. But, um, yeah, I, I find time to sleep. I, I do. My body will not... My 46-year-old body will not allow me not to find time to sleep anymore. It's like "Nope, we're done."

CJ: Yep. Time to unplug. That's awesome. Well, thank you for introducing yourself.

Amy: Yeah, of course.

Kennedy: Sick. Yeah, I'll try to follow that up. Yeah. Um, my name's Kennedy. Uh, I'm a, um, songwriter and artist originally from Kansas City, Missouri. Um, moved to Nashville about two years ago now, just a little over. Um, and yeah, like you said, I, uh, uh, have an artist project or a band, uh, called Judo Blue.

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00:03:22 - Chapter 3 - The Name Judo Blue

CJ: Where did the name come from, if you don't mind me asking?

Kennedy: Uh, it's really dumb. Yeah, but those are the best stories, you know. Totally. Uh, I, uh, I thought it would be cool to have, uh... I love Napoleon Dynamite as a movie, you know? Mm-hmm. Uh, Rex's taekwondo is, like, the funniest thing in the world. And so I thought it would be really cool to have a band, uh, who's, like, the judo temple. Yeah. It was like, you know, like, a place where... Anyways, I just thought that was, like, a funny, like, the church of whatever, taekwondo. Uh, and I told my wife that, and she thought it was dumb, and, uh, which is, I think, a great litmus test, you know, for anything. Uh, and then I, I don't know, I just started thinking about how I can make that cool, and then I thought, uh, Judo Blue sounded like a, an old jazz artist you would hear from in, like, the '30s or something, you know. Uh, and I just thought it was cool, so. I love that.

CJ: And that's like a... Hey, look, I think there's two pieces to it. Like, one, it's always great to have, like, an artist kind of moniker situation where... 'Cause it allows you, like you said, to expand as, like, am I a songwriter? Am I an artist? Am I in a band? Is the band five piece? Is it two piece? Like, it really gives you that option to be, like, a nice front to it, where you can adjust on the fly if you need to. But then the second piece is it needs to be something that makes sense to you and only you. 'Cause outside of that, people are gonna go, "Yeah, that's, uh, interesting how you arrived there." But yeah, it's important to you, you know? I think that's what makes it special.

Kennedy: Yeah, I never wanted to do the, like, solo artist thing. Like, truly, you know? I've always wanted to, like, be in a band and, like, play with my friends and do that thing, you know? Mm-hmm. Totally. Uh, but I've only been in town for, like, so long, and everybody that I've, like, met has, like, their own stuff going on. Right, totally. And so, yeah, the goal is that, uh, eventually it's, you know, a true band. And maybe it's just, like, a rotating cast of my friends whenever they've got time.

CJ: Yeah. No, I think there's... I mean, hey, if there's one city in the world that you could throw a stone and find somebody who would do that with you, uh, it's, it's, yeah, it's pretty easy here. But it takes time. I mean, I've, I've been here for six years now, and, and, you know, once that, that tribe of people starts to come together and you start narrowing that down, they become those new friends. It's Nashville being so transient as it is. You know, I think there's a lot of, you know, there's a busload of people arriving every day and a plane full leaving the next. So it's, you know, as simple as that.

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00:06:22 - Chapter 4 - Introducing & Performing "Sweet Tea"

CJ: Um, cool. I feel like we should hear a song. So tell us a little bit about what song you wanna play and kinda where it came from.

Kennedy: Yeah. Uh, so, uh, I'm gonna play a song called "Sweet Tea." It's gonna be the first, uh, song that, uh, anybody hears. So, um, I don't have an official, uh, release date yet for it, but it's, it's almost done. We're literally waiting on, like, final mix essentially, so it'll probably be out, uh, end of next month. Great. Uh, so I'm super excited. Um, "Sweet Tea" is, uh, super literal. Uh, it's, um, it goes back to a very, like, specific moment where we'd only been here in town for a little bit, and, um, I don't know. We had gone through like kind of a, a pretty rough patch, like the, like, you know, two years or so before. And so, um, just with life and like some things we had gone through and, um, I think I had just been in survival mode and kind of moving and, and not really like thinking about where I was at or thinking about anything other than just like trying to keep us moving, you know?

Um, and I had a weird, weird night where I, uh, drove some friends back home from the airport and was just like helping them out and, uh, it was weird. I was driving, uh, out of the, the-- I was leaving the driveway and, uh, I just started like bawling and like broke down and I don't really like know where it came from. It was just kinda odd and all these like random thoughts like just started like flooding in where I was like something about that I felt like I was a bad friend or like I was doing it for like a selfish purpose or, um, and then that like kinda spiraled into, you know, just general, you know, depressive thoughts. And like I tend to get like very meta with like all of my, uh, like depressive stuff and, um, and then yeah, then I, I, uh, my passive suicidal ideation became very active in that moment and I, I, um... Yeah, it was just very odd and, and, uh, I didn't really know how to explain it or how to like kind of, uh, settle it in the moment.

And so then I, I got back home and of course, uh, Tia, my wife, noticed and like kinda saw how, uh, bloodshot my eyes were. And so we had a conversation and, um, I just opened up and was very vulnerable and honest about how I was feeling and, um, we spent the next like several hours, like she just listened and kind of affirmed like where I was at. And, um, then we just got on, uh, Psychology Today and started looking for a therapist and trying to find something that like, you know, uh, fit, you know, or felt like it fit. Um, and then yeah, I just, and we fell asleep and woke up the next morning and it was like one of those things where you, you feel like you're like in a dream. You're like, "I don't really know what to do with myself or what this like even is." Uh, and so I just pick up my guitar and it's like always such a, I think for any musician, it's such a like natural thing to gravitate to. And so I started playing and then I just started being stupid and saying what I was like seeing, you know? And, uh, then it kind of evolved into this thing where, um, just telling the story of what like a rock that, you know, my wife has been for me through all of my, my mental health, you know.

CJ: Awesome. I'd love to hear it.

Kennedy: [PERFORMS "SWEET TEA"]

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00:13:22 - Chapter 5 - Reflecting on "Sweet Tea" & The Supportive Partner

CJ: Ooh. Wow. Wow, you were not lying when you said it hit the nail on the head. This is exactly what it is. Pretty literal. Yeah, especially in the, in the, in, in a relationship. Like, I think that is, like, that counterpart of having someone there with you to, to understand it, to, to go with you to that place is hard. Yeah.

Kennedy: Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, I'm very lucky, um, and I don't pretend to not know it. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, she's awesome. We, like, you know, when we met, we, uh, were just very different people, and we, we met working, uh, in a big church and, um, you know, go through what, like, a lot of people go through, I think. And so, you know, uh, leaving that experience and growing so much and changing so much as people. And, um, we both were in that space because of a, you know, a desire to, to help people and love people and, um, trying to figure out and renegotiate, like, what does that, like, look like now at this point in my life? Sure. Um, and she, uh, she's just so smart, and so she, uh, decided to go into the therapy route, and it had been something that had helped us, like, so much in that, you know, transition period. Um, and so yeah, now, you know, being a therapist, she's, uh, she totally, like, understands and gets all of it, and she's had so much patience for all of that stuff even, you know, prior to, um, her studying. But, um, yeah, it's pretty, like, insane, like, what that's been. And that's also why, you know, now I know I have OCD, so yeah, which we can get into that later.

CJ: Yeah, for sure. So, so you guys knew each other through that. Is that... 'Cause that's how we have a tie in this room. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Amazing.

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00:17:22 - Chapter 6 - OCD in Creatives — Busting the Stereotype

Amy: Okay, I'm gonna back up. There's, there's like a tiny soapbox I'm going to now get on.

CJ: Yeah.

Amy: Which is that I think in particular with OCD, maybe less so with anxiety, but with OCD, there's often this stereotype of it being, like, you know, this particular, like, personality type that's very uptight and that's very like dot my I's and cross my T's and everything has to be just so, which is, is a part of some people's experience with OCD, and I don't want to diminish that. And, and OCD sort of affects all, all people, all different kinds of personalities, et cetera. And so when I see it in creative folks, um, you know, I often see it as being like there is this unbridled passion for the work, and then there's this layer of perfectionism and just right. And, um, you know, because I care so much about my craft, I have to make sure in that realm, not to dot all my I's and cross all my T's, but to sort of make sure that, like, you know, that note is just so, those words are just so.

CJ: Sure. For sure. I think there's a, there's kind of like a, like you said, a lot of that built into the, the down the line understanding of where the diagnosis is, where it sits.

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00:20:22 - Chapter 7 - Pure O, Perfectionism & Getting Frozen

Kennedy: Yeah. Uh, I think it's something that I'm still learning quite a bit. Like, I think, um, you know, I think, uh, what I've learned about it thus far and, and, you know, my particular flavor, I guess, is, uh, I tend to be more in the, uh, like pure O, like category. Um, and, uh, so I do a lot of like, uh, mental checking, and I do a lot of reassurance seeking and, uh, very much in that like perfectionism like space. Um, and then I get like frozen and like overwhelmed by all of that stuff. Like it all like compounds and loops and loops and loops. And so I think like even just me, uh, you know, finally taking the steps, uh, with, you know, this project with Judo, like it's, it's taken a lot of, uh, overcoming that stuff, overcoming the, you know, the freeze and, um, being frustrated with things not sounding, you know, how I want them to, or maybe like not being able to word something in a way that sounds like an artist that I really like or, uh, being daunted by, you know, uh, social media and having to be like a content creator as well or something. So it's like all the facets of it, you know, that I think like, um, yeah, I just get in these like these loops of like checking and, and, you know, uh, perfectionism.

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00:23:22 - Chapter 8 - If You Wait Until You Feel Ready, You'll Never Act

Amy: Yeah. No. Yeah. It's very, very common, and I think what you said about like daring yourself to do things, I tell folks with OCD and in particular like, you know, the, the kind of flavor that you said, the pure O or purely obsessional, just meaning that there aren't as many overt physical compulsions. It's like if you wait until you feel ready, you will never act. Right? Yeah. And which is a really difficult thing. That it's just, it's counterintuitive, right? Especially when I think there's a lot of messaging out there that's like, "Listen to your gut," or like, "You'll know when it's right." Or like, there are all these kind of pithy phrases that are, are not helpful with OCD. It's like, you know, um, or, you know, if you've checked it twice, you might as well check it again. Like, no, no, no. Yeah, yeah. It's always take the leap, take the plunge, dare yourself, do the thing while it still feels hard.

Amy: And once you identify, like, what your values are and what your why is, your, your sort of North Star of your compass, where you're going, then I think that can help galvanize people toward like, "Okay, I'm doing the hard thing because it's in service of like what's important to me." And, you know, the relational aspect, again, in your song as well is something I think about a lot because, um, I think, like, OCD and anxiety, sure, they're like individual disorders, but they sort of enlist, like, everyone in them, or they can, and being able to, like, have a partner or have supportive people who can say, "I wanna support you while not enabling your OCD," is like, that's the jackpot. Yeah. That's so hard to find.

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00:28:22 - Chapter 9 - The Bicycle Chain & Not Quite Right Experiences

Amy: I always say, um, because I have personal experience with OCD as well, I feel like it is, your brain is like the chain on a bicycle when you're between gears. Mm. Mm-hmm. You've, like, switched and it hasn't gotten there yet, and it's like ka-chunk, ka-chunk, ka-chunk. Yeah.

Kennedy: Yeah, yeah.

Amy: And so your question, I would say yes, sometimes anxiety is sort of a precursor. If you look at research, separation anxiety as a child is one of, um, one of the common precursors, again, not 100% of the time. But then there's kind of a subset of people with OCD who have less anxiety, and they just have, sort of more of that, like, not quite right, um, perfectionism feel.

CJ: Right.

Amy: Um, but I, I think you bring up a great point, and I'm curious about it for you as well. Like, if, if that's okay. Yeah, of course. Like, the line between... 'Cause we all have anxiety, right? Yeah. Anxiety, if we don't, like, that's a disorder in itself. Um, so for you, when did it get to, like, hey, this is, this is significant enough anxiety that, like, it's time to go?

Amy: I think one of the most common characteristics that I see of people with OCD is this symptom where they're, like, doubting if they have OCD.

Kennedy: Oh, yeah.

CJ: I think about it constantly, every day. Yeah. Yeah.

Kennedy: I thought about it this morning.

CJ: Yeah. I was like, "It's kinda weird." Yeah, no. That's like... that doctor knows nothing. That's crazy, man. I can't wait to go on here, and then Amy's gonna be like, "Nah, dude."

Amy: Didn't wanna tell you.

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00:33:22 - Chapter 10 - Music as a Compulsion vs Music as a Tool

Kennedy: Yeah. Uh, I think thus far I haven't done a ton of live stuff, uh, specifically with Judo. Um, I do play, like, quite a bit, um, with other artists as, like, a side band or whatever. Sure. Um, so I haven't, like, gotten that experience quite yet to see, like, how, you know, people react. Yeah. Um, I think as far as myself, I think it's helped, uh, quite a bit. Yeah. Like, I think, um... And it's even something, like I was telling you, like, I, I have to be, uh, a bit careful with, like, playing and writing and using it as, like, therapy, you know? Sure. Uh, because I can really easily fall into these, like... I can fall into loops because I'm, like, focusing on thinking on this one particular, like, hard thing that I'm like, "I just really need to, like, I need to, like, just get this out, and I need to, like, work it out." And then, uh, you just get stuck. Mm. Um, and it's, that's, you know, a, a very, like, similar reason to, um, why I, I even, like, pursued, um, my diagnosis in the first place, is, like, being stuck in this, like, thing and thinking you're doing all the right things. Like, thinking like, "I'm, I'm going to therapy, and I'm, like, talking to people, and I'm inviting people into my world, and I'm being open and honest, and, like, and I don't feel like I'm, like, anywhere. I'm just treading water."

CJ: Mm.

Kennedy: Um, because OCD is like, it's just, uh... To me, it feels like intrusive thoughts that are really, like, really sticky and very mean. And, uh, you can get stuck, like, to those thoughts.

Amy: Yeah. Yeah. I would say almost when you were talking, you were talking about the difference between writing music or creating in a compulsive way that is like, "I'm gonna..." You know, one of the things about OCD is that oftentimes traditional talk therapy and, like, exploratory, like, let's get to the root of it, isn't as helpful. Because OCD is not a problem of, like, under-thinking. It's not like, "Well, if we just keep thinking about this a little bit more," right? It's about, like you're already in those thought loops. So I think there are ways in which, and when I've worked with artists, we've talked about how there are ways in which creating can itself become a compulsion of trying to, you know, figure something out rather than accept the inherent uncertainty in some difficult situations.

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00:40:22 - Chapter 11 - Co-Writing as Exposure & Finding Your Voice

Kennedy: Yeah. I think, uh, I think that's actually a really, like, great point that I hadn't really thought of. Uh, yeah, I think co-writes have, like, helped me a ton and, like, writing for other artists and stuff. Sure. Um, there's definitely, like, a few people I've written with, uh, or written for where, you know, you're in the room, and I think a lot of people, like, you get in the room and you're like, "I'm not really, like, in love with, you know, whatever the style or the song that we're writing. Um, but, like, I really, like, enjoy, like, this relationship or, like, this person." Oh, yeah. "And so, like, I'm super down to, like, just do it," you know?

CJ: Yeah.

Kennedy: Um, and I think that in and of itself has been, like, a really good practice for me, like, trying to add value to something that, you know, doesn't feel right, you know? Yeah. Um, so I think that's been super helpful, and then I think just even being in a lot of rooms where either my contribution, uh, I might feel really, really strongly about it, and it doesn't, like, get, you know, the... Not everybody, like, sees the legs that I think it has, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, or an idea picking up traction that I really don't believe in. Yeah. Sure. But, uh, you know, you're just like, cool. And so I think, um, I think being in that space of, like, just it's almost, like, constantly uncomfortable, I think, in, like, for me in some of those spaces. Mm. And having to, like, be in front of that and, and, and, you know, kind of work that out in the moment, um, because it's like I'm not gonna be able to be effective if I just sit here and try to, like, work it out until it, like, makes sense or it feels right to me.

CJ: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. A more, more acute understanding of how... I guess like you said, providing value to a room. What, what is your superpower? What's the thing that you do in the room that provides that for somebody else? Like I call them gym buddies. That's like going to the gym with people, 'cause it's like, all right, we're getting a workout in today, but this is not the big race. This is not it. This is not the championship, you know what I mean?

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00:45:22 - Chapter 12 - Early Access, Youth Mental Health & Kids Owning Their OCD

CJ: There is a point I do wanna circle back to that I kind of, I glossed over a moment. Um, was from, from your standpoint, saying that you're saying the OCD Anxiety Center provide early access for younger folks. Can you tell me more about that? 'Cause I think there's something that, of some of the episodes that, you know, we've been doing, there's not enough of a focus in on something about early access to, for younger children.

Amy: Yeah, I think that, um, so while it's rare for OCD symptoms to appear prior to, like, age five, you know, there's kind of a, a little bit of a, there's childhood onset, which would be, like, pre-pubertal. And there's a little bit of a peak usually around like age eight to 10, but again, it can be as young as like five, six, seven. Um, and then there's another one around puberty 'cause there is for almost every mental health concern. There's just a lot going on physiologically, socially, everything. Um, and then there are people who have adult onset OCD as well. Mm. So about 50% of people will have a childhood onset of OCD, so before age 18. Now, many of those people will not get diagnosed for years and years. In fact, the research has, um, demonstrated over and over again that we're looking at like 10 or 15 years elapsing between onset of symptoms and proper diagnosis.

Amy: So, um, to that end, those of us at the clinic who work with kiddos, we are, um, you know, pretty passionate about like, again, there's no-- You don't have to wait until it's like, oh, my child is washing their hands until they're raw, or they can't go to school or things like that. Um, we do a lot of evaluations, things like that. Um, and so whether or not legislation is there, we're gonna be there, you know, at school events, things like that, advocating for, like this is what anxiety and OCD looks like in little ones. 'Cause oftentimes, as opposed to some of the other concerns that might be a bit more disruptive, sometimes OCD and anxiety can look great from the outside. Sure. You know? They're really good students, and they're like quirky, but they're getting things done, and, you know, they avoid a few things, but it's not a big deal, that kind of thing. So because they tend to be, like, the rule follower type kids, sometimes they're even praised for behaviors which are later shown to be compulsive.

CJ: The binder was color-coded all the way down. Yeah, yeah.

Kennedy: Totally.

Amy: Yeah, and it's kind of just like, yeah, teachers are like, "Well, this is amazing." Um, so yeah. So we do some work as well with, um, we've talked to, like, guidance counselors, we've talked to teachers. When I first moved to Nashville and I didn't really know anyone, it was like there's no speaking engagement too small for me to say yes to. Mm. So I've been to, like, you know, PTA meetings, I've been to, um, churches and synagogues and whoever wants to listen, um, because I think that, um, research has shown that the shorter the duration between onset of symptoms and beginning of treatment, the less likely it is that symptoms will get to that severe range.

CJ: Yeah. Well, for the folks at home who are in the Davidson County or wider area, you know who to call. Um, I think that's just such an incredible, like you said, there's no speaking engagement too small. Thank you for being here. Um, but it's what it's about.

Amy: I just got back from the International OCD Foundation Conference. It's an annual conference, and it's really cool 'cause it's open to therapists and researchers, but also people with lived experience, and kids with lived experience. And there are little workshops for them. And, um, just seeing a bunch of, you know, elementary school-aged kids running around, um, like, owning, like, "We all have OCD." Mm. Like, "We're friends." Like, "You count also? I'm a counter." Oh my gosh. Or like, "I'm a washer." And it's zero stigma. It's just like, yeah, it's just like kids being kids. "We play soccer." "We have OCD." It's, uh, that's always, um... Makes me very proud to be part of the OCD community.

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00:54:22 - Chapter 13 - Introducing & Performing "Feels Right"

CJ: Um, you had mentioned maybe we have another song that's available. Yeah. If you wanna take us home with another song and tell us something else.

Kennedy: We can give it a go.

Kennedy: [PERFORMS "FEELS RIGHT"]

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00:57:22 - Chapter 14 - Reflecting on "Feels Right" & Finding Your Space

CJ: Ooh. Mm. It's like a, like a mixture of coming of age and also understanding where that age goes. I like it.

Kennedy: Yeah, it's funny. Um, I wrote, I wrote this song with my friend Johnny. Uh, shout out Johnny Rourke. Check him out on Spotify, Apple, wherever. He's awesome. He's a great artist. Soft plug. Um, but he's a, a phenomenal, um, artist and writer and, and an even better friend. And so, uh, yeah, we were kind of both in this, like, funny space. We were like, "Man, why is, like, life just, like, confusing and, like, kinda hard?" And, uh, you know, we're both, like, getting older and, and starting to kinda grapple with, like, "Man, this is weird. I feel like everybody I know that has, like, kind of, uh, found some success or, like, made it, you know, in, in music or just in, in any art, uh, did it way earlier. And, like, for some reason we just, like, kinda haven't even been able to figure our lives out enough to kinda do that thing." And, um, so yeah, we were like, "Let's just write something that, uh, you know, a little nostalgic and a little, uh, also just, like, self-encouraging, trying to push yourself forward," you know?

CJ: That's the song. It's begging to be on a coming of age movie. If there's any sync agents out there, just, you know, hit us up.

Kennedy: Yeah, I think, um, yeah, I think it's a lot of, of that stuff. I probably would have, uh, I would have loved to just hear that at some point, like you'll, you'll kind of find your space, like whatever it is that you're gonna like fit in. Like it's so hard, you know, I think especially when you're a kid and you're awkward and, uh, and nerdy and, you know, whatever else. Like it's, it's, you know, growing up is, is, is hard, um, I think especially now. And it's taken me a long time, I think, to kind of feel comfortable like in my own skin. Um, and I think, you know, uh, understanding a lot more about myself with my diagnosis and everything I think has like helped immensely, you know? Um, so I think I would have loved to, you know, just be told like, "Yeah, you're, you're gonna figure it out. Like you'll find your space. Like it's not gonna be perfect. It's not gonna be shiny. Um, but you know, I think the good is still like worth it." And I think sometimes good is like better than perfect, you know?

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01:01:22 - Chapter 15 - Relationship OCD, Noah Kahan & Angry Women Sad Men

Amy: Yeah. Interesting. Um, I think that it's, it's interesting to me because I do have this, like, inverse relationship between my positive mental health and my likelihood of listening to music. Meaning, like, I listen when I'm down. Mm. Yeah. I listen when I'm, I'm like... And I love, I love sadness. Mm. Um, I think it's, like, my favorite emotion.

CJ: Yeah, totally.

Amy: Which is a weird thing to say. Yeah. But it's, um... I think that, like, and so yeah, there's a lot of, um, I, I like, uh, what do I like for sadness? Goodness. I like, um, anything by Bill Callahan. Um, so, like, his solo stuff, Smog from back in the '90s. Mm-hmm. Um, I, I like Max Richter for, like, instrumental, um, quite a bit. I think, um, I have been told by a friend, I have not listened... I don't really listen to Noah Kahan. Um, but I have been told that the latest album, like, is very much potentially about relationship OCD.

Kennedy: Yeah. Oh, cool. Yeah.

Amy: And so I intend to listen to that and, uh, and see what I think about that. But yeah, I, I like a lot of, um, I like angry women and sad men. That's what I like.

CJ: That's a, that is a genre, actually. I, uh, am a big fan.

Amy: Angry women, sad men. Yeah. Yeah.

CJ: Um, it's funny you mention the, the Noah Kahan thing. 'Cause again, I, I was, I was not hip to his game about some of this stuff until this album. Mm. 'Cause I, I, it's just not, it was not my, my bag for music, uh, until this, this new album came out, and essentially his entire promotional campaign was talking about this stuff on the front. Right. That was, that, the whole social media post. Like, obviously this guy's one of the most followed artists in the world at the moment. Mm. And he, it was all about his, he has a foundation, um, that was all basically putting his foundation on the front foot of saying like, "I'm promoting my new album, but actually here's my foundation that's dealing with mental health resources and guidance and things like that." And it was about the, kind of the relationship OCD conversation that he's had, whether it be, you know, romantic or whether it's with family or things like that.

Amy: Oh, relationship OCD? Yeah. So this is one of my particular areas of interest. I've, um, so I've written a book, um, called Thriving in Relationships When You Have OCD, which is not only about relationship OCD, but it has a lot in there about that. I see OCD as, like, an inherently relational concern because it tends to pull people in. But when it comes to relationship OCD, it's interesting. There are a lot of things that look like relationship OCD. So you can have, like, you know, attachment wounds, and you can have, um, just certain interpersonal patterns that, that kind of look like relationship OCD. But it's basically, it follows the OCD cycle in the sense that the obsessions or the unwanted, intrusive, repetitive, um, thoughts, urges, images, impulses have to do with significant relationships, not only romantic, but often romantic, and they fall into two camps. There's the relationship-focused relationship OCD, which is like, is this, is this the one for me? Is this, like, the rightness of the relationship? Do they love me enough? Do I love them enough? And then there's partner-focused relationship OCD which is more about scrutinizing your partner. Like, can I really be with somebody who makes these kinds of spelling errors or who has that one, you know, tic with their eyebrows or what have you? Um, and so those are like the two subtypes and those are the obsessions. And then the compulsions are things like reassurance seeking, um, looking at social media to compare, um, things like avoiding, uh, social media or avoiding anything that depicts relationships. So it really runs the gamut, but they're repetitive behaviors to, um, yeah, to provide some kind of relief for the anxiety about the relationship.

CJ: Yeah, for sure. And like you said, if it's especially prevalent in romantic relationship, you're living with that partner, there it's, it's close proximity a lot of the time, right? Right. So where it kinda rears its head and things like that. And, um, there is a great resource that you just mentioned, a book you wrote, which is available everywhere, yes?

Amy: Yes.

CJ: Yes. It is. Available everywhere. Um, there's an audiobook version too.

Amy: Hey, there you go, for people like me who hate to sit and read, um, and love to sit and listen. Yeah. Um, yeah, it's nice that we kinda, we're able to tie that back full circle to the beginning of the first song, which is a case of, like, relationships are one of the key cornerstones for helping people get through this, whether it be, like you said, platonic, romantic, family, you know, faith, whatever. There's some version of a, a support network, and I don't care who you get it from as long as it's healthy.

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01:08:22 - Chapter 16 - Resources, Where to Find Amy & Judo Blue

Amy: Um, well, uh, my, our clinic has, is at ocdnashville.com. We also have an, uh, Instagram where I used to draw mental health comics for it. I've taken about, like, a two-year break, so we have some other resources. But I wanted to get mental health content out in a really accessible way, and that's @ocdnashville.

Kennedy: Amazing. I'd love to ask too real quick, like, um, it feels like OCD is like so underdiagnosed. So for somebody who may be, uh, if they're listening or watching, like is maybe questioning whether or not they might have it, like, um, you know, or maybe they don't, like what are some signs that like they could look for to maybe clue in, like they do have OCD and they should go down that route?

Amy: I think one, one good place to look would be like iocdf.org, um, has a ton of resources on there, and you can kinda see it again at different ages, like what it might look like in kiddos, what it might look like in adults and the different subtypes and so forth. And then I think also at iocdf.org, you can go and there's a find a provider link, and that will give you a list of wherever you're located geographically, like here are the specialists in the area. And you can always go and, you know, just get like an evaluation. Um, I know I'm saying that as though it's the easiest thing. It's not, and it's, it's hard. It takes a lot of bravery. I can say from where I'm standing, like it's not a big deal. It's a, you know, you have like your arm hurts, you go to the doctor. You're, you're not sure if you have compulsions, you go to a therapist. But, but yeah, that would be a place, a place to look, and I think it's just like, yeah, it's that stuckness, the stuck, stuck, stuck, which you can have with depression and rumination. You can sort of have looping thoughts. But that idea about, um, intrusive, unwanted thoughts and that loop of trying to figure them out. That would be a good place to start.

CJ: Yeah. That's awesome. Thank you. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Where will we find you for your up and coming as well, 'cause you mentioned there's a single coming.

Kennedy: Yeah, yeah. Uh, so you can, uh, check me out on social media. Uh, it's judo.blue, uh, on everything. Uh, and then I've got a link in my bio there if you wanna sign up for, uh, a Discord. I'd love to, like, just hang out and meet people and, like, build a little, like, community. Um, and then yeah, I'll be, uh, putting out "Sweet Tea" by the end of August is kind of the goal at the moment. Okay. Uh, so yeah, look forward to that, and that'll be everywhere as far as I'm concerned.

CJ: All the usual suspects. Well, thank you both so much. Um, and for those of you listening at home, I am currently repping the new available merch that is available on the website forwardshow.com. Um, yeah, you can find everything there. Everything for resource links in the show notes. Um, all links to both of our guests here. Um, and any resources you need, feel free to reach out. I will send you everything you need to know about who you need to speak to. So I appreciate both of you and both of your time.

Amy: Thank you.

CJ: Thank you so much.

Amy: Thanks.